Interview with Sylvan Schwab

MJ: Sylvan Schwab, thank you for joining us today.

SS: Thank you for having me.

MJ: Tell us about this place, the East Maui Animal Refuge.

SS: Well, the East Maui Animal Refuge was established to take in orphaned

and injured animals in a life threatening situation, that have nobody else

to take care of them. That's what we've been doing now for about 18 years.

MJ: How did it get started?

SS: It started out when I actually met my wife, and found out that she had

cancer, and part of her treatment became occupational therapy, a good

strong mind - set to get up every day and have something to do. And I knew

that she had an affinity to taking care of injured, sickly little animals,

so I started collecting injured, and sickly little animals wherever I

could, and I started out at the pet shop, different breeders, and the

humane society, and looking for little critters in a life threatening

situation that needed help just like she did.

MJ: And what is this cat's name?

SS: This is Luke. Luke has feline leukemia.

MJ: Leukemia?

SS: Yes.

MJ: Animals get the same kinds of diseases that we do?

SS: Well, they're not the same exact bug, bacteria or virus, but they're

called the same because they have the same effect on the animal.

MJ: So when your wife first came down with cancer and you began this

therapy, how did it affect her disease?

SS: Actually, it... She is over cancer, so it had to have a positive

effect. She had what was termed terminal cancer of the kidneys, and this,

coupled with a lot of Oriental medicine brought her through. It took about

a year and a half, but this has become now our terminal effort here to

bring the animals around.

MJ: So what do the doctors credit her recovery to, hanging out with

animals? What do they say about this?

SS: Well, her treatment was through a Chinese convention medical doctor. So

the AMA throws up their hands, you know. Well, who knows, you know. But it

was just basically juicing a lot of vegetables, and taking a lot of

megadoses of vitamins under the care of a person who knew what he was

doing, and letting the body heal itself.

MJ: So that was the start of the shelter. What's been happening since then?

How many animals do you take in, and what sort of variety do you see?

SS: We take in usually, four, five, six animals a day, usually it's

wildlife.

MJ: A day.

SS: A day. We have on the premises usually about 3 to 400 animals at all

times that are in various stages of care, some going back out into the

wild, some going to be permanent residents, some going to be adopted

because they're domestic animals. Each case is different. They come in for

the same reason, because they're dying. If we don't take them, they'll die.

Whether they stay or whether they find another home, or go back to the wild

just depends on the animal itself.

MJ: How do they get here?

SS: Through almost any means you might think. The humane society brings

animals in, the department of wildlife brings animals in, we get calls all

day long from people who get directed to us because they have animals that

there is no place to take them to. The police department, almost any way

that you can think of.

MJ: Do you ever turn animals away?

SS: If an animals is a healthy, adoptable pet, then we will help the people

who have their pet to find a home. We'll give them a lot of ways to find a

home or we'll already know people who are looking for an animal. So if it's

not in a life threatening situation, it just needs a new home, then we'll

help it find a new home without having to bring it here, and crowd what's

already an overcrowded situation for animals that need us to see them.

MJ: What varieties do we have here right now?

SS: We have everything from baby birds that are one day out of the nest, to

our biggest creature is a steer that was brought here two years ago,

because it was confiscated by the humane society because it was in a very

neglective situation.

MJ: Any others?

SS: We have everything. We have goats, we have deer, sheep, cats, and dogs,

and all kinds of birds, fowl, and then there's Boris.

MJ: And how many, like right now, how many do you have? I know it changes

every day.

SS: Yeah, it's hard to say. I'd say we're running about 350 animals.

MJ: 350 animals?SS: That are here at the moment, yeah.

MJ: That's a lot of food. How do you pay, how pay for food for these, and

for care and things like that?

SS: Well, we have a lot of feeding places that keep our accounts going when

money runs low, but basically the whole operation is supported just by

private donations, just like any other non-profit organization. And we

don't have any paid positions. Everybody here is a volunteer. So we cut

corners by having everybody, you know, who works here work here because

they want to be here, not because they're make money on it.

MJ: Do the people who send the donations, are they mostly people on Maui

here, or do you have some other places as well?

SS: We get donations from Germany, Japan, France, a lot of people on the

mainland. Maui is well known for having tourists, and tourists are often

out there touring around, and will find a little bird fallen on the ground,

and they will find out there's no place else to bring it but here, so

people who have come here, and found out what we're doing, and support what

we're doing, often continue to support later on. And so, it's mainly from

people who over the years have seen our operation and see what we're doing.

MJ: What is the attitude of people on Maui, toward animals, towards strays

in general?

SS: I'd like to say it's good, but unfortunately, nobody likes to see an

animal get put down. So a lot of people will be skeptical about taking an

animal somewhere, and often they will just drop them on the roadside.

MJ: "Put down." You mean euthanized.

SS: Yes. And we don't euthanize any animals, but there are animal control

facilities that have no choice. They have to, you know, in order to keep

the population.... Especially, like on tropical islands, so there's no

winter, and so the pharaoh cat populations just keeps growing and growing

and growing, and whereas in other countries you have a winter, the wild

animals will have to die down over the winter months. On a tropical island,

there's no winter, and they just keep propagating. It's a much more

difficult situation. So they'll come from everywhere. We have animals that

come from other islands. And animals that give you a very hard time.

MJ: Tell us about this one.

SS: Boris... A long time, many years ago, we supported the refuge by

running a pet sitting service, so originally Boris was here as part of our

pet sitting service. But Boris' owners died, and asked that he stay here on

the refuge permanently because basically he was so ornery there was no

place else for Boris to go, and he stayed caged up for many years, and

finally one day we just told Boris he could have his freedom. And Boris

won't go away.

MJ: How many people do you have on staff here right now?

SS: We have about 12 volunteers right now that come on a regular basis and

help out at some part of the day or other to get the chores done.

MJ: And are they people... college students, older people, people who just

love animals?

SS: All kinds. All people who love animals. You can count on that part. Our

youngest are 11, there are a few 11 year old volunteers, our oldest is 77,

and she's very much a kitty lover. She's saved a lot of cats and brought

them here. Most of them are just normal people like you and I who just have

a couple hours a week that they'd like to spend taking care of some animals

that need it.

MJ: When you were in high school or college or whatever, did you ever

imagine that you'd be doing this with your life?

SS: No, my degree is in photography. I had no idea whatsoever. It was

meeting my wife, and getting into the care of animals with her that started

the whole thing, and now I wouldn't do anything else.

MJ: Did you have a lot of animals as a kid?

SS: No, we had a dog once.

MJ: And that was it.

SS: That was it. We lived... I was born and raised in Chicago, in the city,

and I would have loved to have animals, but other than a lot of pigeons out

on the porch, we didn't have many around.

MJ: What brought you to Maui to begin with?

SS: I had just graduated college, and I needed to start somewhere, and just

by coincidence, a friend had asked if I wanted to come along, and he had a

business trip here, and had an extra ticket, so I came along, just a month

before graduation, and I... before I even landed on the island, I just saw

the island, and I said, "OK, I know where I want to go." If I got to start

starving somewhere, it was as good a place as any, as any to start.

MJ: What did you begin doing at that point?

SS: Well, I just got my degree in photography, so I was working for several

photo lab on the island for many years.

MJ: It's quite a contrast from Chicago.

SS: It's quite a contrast from Chicago. Almost anything is quite a contrast

from Chicago.

MJ: What are the down sides of living with 350 animals?

SS: I haven't come to one yet. Affording to do it. It's a very expensive,

venture. It costs us around 10-12,000 dollars a month to keep the place

going, and that's even with all volunteers. But, it's very expensive to

take care of... every animal needs major care at one point in time, and

everybody's hungry.

MJ: Do you get woken up in the night by a......?

SS: I don't hear it anymore.

MJ: You don't hear it anymore.

SS: No, not unless it's somebody in trouble. If it's somebody in trouble,

somehow you tune into that, but other than that, the normal evening sounds

of the animals...

MJ: And you can make the distinction of an animal in trouble, and just an

animal crying.

SS: Oh yeah. When after you've... When you've taken so many in that are in

troubled situations in the first place, you learn to tune into what a

troubled animal sounds like. They have a way of crying, of screaming, of

letting you know they're in pain. And whatever language, whether it's

whistling, or squelching up a pear, or whatever, they let you know. They

let you know when they want to have the floor.

MJ: Do you ever have any fights? You've got cats, and dogs, and goats, and

all kinds.

SS: It's inevitable, you're going to have a little scramble here and there,

but for the most part, the animals have come here in a critical situation,

and so each one comes in a mellow situation, even though they might be a

wild boar or a wild animal, they're injured at that time. And the nurturing

and the nursing and bringing them around, somehow they know this is a safe

haven, a home, and fights are just minimal.

MJ: Have you ever been bitten by one of your animals?

SS: I don't know, Boris? Every now and then it happens, but not too often.

For the most part, unless they're just trying to get your attention,

they're there in pain. They're usually pretty mellow.

MJ: What's the most unusual animal that you've had here, that we wouldn't

think of being in a shelter like this.

SS: Well, we don't get... I mean, we do get endangered species. I've had

various tropic birds that migrate from the arctic, or from various points,

and while in migratory get injured, but we try to get those healed and out

just as quick as possible. Birds... because we're an island out in the

middle of the Pacific, you don't get rare animals roaming in, unless

they're roaming in from way out there on the ocean, so since we don' have a

large ocean facility here on the refuge, mainly it's birds that we're

getting that are rare.

MJ: Do you have visitors that just come and look around?

SS: Often, often. Since we're an all volunteer organization, it's difficult

to run regular hours, but anybody can call and make arrangements to come

and visit the place

MJ: And what do the animals think of visitors?

SS: The animals that don't like visitors have to be in a secure area so

that our visitors don't get a rude awakening. But those animals normally

are ones that give volunteers a hard time, too, so they have to sort of be

in a secure area so that the volunteers can help out as well.

MJ: What kind of different kinds of personalities do you see among all

these animals?

SS: Well, we get some like Boris. Boris was brought here originally very,

very mean. Nobody could get touch him, get near him. He just had to be

locked up. And you had to slip the food in really quick before you'd lose a

finger. But as you can see over the years, Boris is just such a sweet,

mellow baby now. Yes, he's so sweet now. And then of course we get most of

them when they come in, they are sweet, mellow little babies, because

they're either orphaned babies, or they're injured and in need of help. But

the personalities come out later on. And we get some rowdies, but everybody

learns to find their own spot, and space where they can be happy without

having to have a little skirmish.

MJ: How do you think these animals see you? What are you to them?

SS: A good friend I hope. I don't know, I try to communicate with them,

even though at times in their own language even though I don't speak their

"wank wank" or whatever, but you listen to them, and you mimic their

sounds, and you try to give them food, and give them shelter, they relate,

they understand, just like anybody.

MJ: What kind of injuries do you see most often when the animals come in?

SS: Well, most common are broken wings. Because the wildlife in Hawaii is

sort of limited, because whatever comes into Hawaii becomes prolific in

Hawaii, so they try to control what wildlife comes in. A lot of birds, so

we get a lot broken wings. A lot of orphans, in other words, babies.

There's a lot of goats up in the mountains, on the crater, and there's a

lot of goat hunting, so there's a lot of orphaned babies that happen.

Orphaned goats, orphaned deer. Broken wings and orphans seem to be... Even

with birds, we get a lot of birds falling out of nests. That seems to be

our prime problem.

MJ: Now, how do you get... Once the animal has come here and gotten

healthy, how do you kind of kick them out of the place? How do you get them

to go back to where they came from?

SS: Well, you make it accessible to them, if the Department of Wildlife

wants it to be accessible to them. The birds of course... All the aviary

areas have accessibility for them to let themselves out whenever they're

ready to. The goats, the deer, the pigs, are all ready considered by the

Department of Wildlife to be destructive to the environment, and

overpopulated all ready, so those they want to remain on the refuge. So we

give them plenty of space to choose how much area they want to roam, and

try to give them a replacement to the wild instead of letting them go back

into the wild.

MJ: But cats, for instance. How do you... I mean, the cat's got food here,

he's got you, he's got shelter. Why would he want to go back to where he

came from?

SS: Well, most of the cats we take in, again, are orphans, little tiny

babies, so they grow up here, and they don't want to go back anywhere,

because this is all they know. Or they're so sick that it's taken a long

time to bring them back around, and again, they learn, this is food, this

is shelter, this is a protective area. They usually stick around, so that's

probably why we have so many animals here. We take them in because there is

no place else for them to go. And so often that's why they end up staying

here.

MJ: Tell us about this house we're in right now.

SS: This is a tree house I built because I wanted to have a place for

birds to be released back up in the trees, where they can come back, safe

from cats, and I also have a section of it built for cats that have AIDS,

feline AIDS, or feline leukemia, which is communicable to other cats, but

not to people, so they're up here away from other cats. They can have a

nice, bright, airy playground, and still be in a quarantined facility. And

Boris, don't eat the camera!

MJ: What would would you like to see people take from this? What would you

like to have them learn about what you do with the animals?

SS: If nothing else, I think I appreciate when someone appreciate when

someone walks away realizing that animals are just an extension of the

human race. I've had a lot of people come who got to meet Gandhi, the

steer, and never had the opportunity to one on one meet what they've been

eating at McDonald's. I think we just ate the microphone there.

MJ: What do you want people to learn about animals and about what you do

here? What do you want them to take away from here?

SS: I want them to get the feeling that we have gotten: that animals are

just an extension of the human race, that they're just another part of

life, and that it should be valued as life. A lot of people have gotten to

meet Gandhi, the steer, and walked away, and said "I'm never going to have

a hamburger again," you know, because they didn't realize that the steer

has, you know, it has a personality. It relates. It knows its name. It

comes to you. It has... It can love. It just can be sweet as can be. And

all of a sudden, you realize that eating meat could be a lot like eating

your dog, or eating your cat, or eating your bird. It's just, some critters

have been designated as food, and some have been designated as pets, and so

exactly why, I don't know.

MJ: Are you a complete vegetarian?

SS: Yeah, I am now. I didn't used to be. I've learned. Gandhi, the steer,

taught me to be a vegetarian. I learned from him, that I wasn't just eating

a hamburger, that I was devouring the flesh of what was a thinking, living

creature.

MJ: Now, the steer is named Gandhi. How do you come up with these names,

and what are some other names of animals?

SS: I came up with Gandhi. I just wanted something that... I don't know why

I came up with Gandhi, you know. The first thing I thought of was the steer

walking around India, and they're not being eaten, and the first thing I

related to India was Gandhi, so I named him Gandhi. But some of the animals

come with a name. Boris was all ready named when he came. People who bring

an animal that they have just found, I normally name after the person, so

when they call up and say, you know, "How is that little kitten I brought

about eight months ago?" you know, and that's about three dozen kittens

ago, and you have no idea what they're talking about, so if we name it

after the person, they say, "Hi, my name's Derry," then I know, "Oh, yeah,

Derry the kitty, yeah."

MJ: You have a Japanese named animal.

SS: Only one? Oh, Naoki. That was named after a restaurant. But I have a

lot of Yagi, but I haven't named one Yagi yet!

MJ: Tell us about your time in Japan. I know you spent a couple of years

there.

SS: I spent four years in Japan, and, God, it was the most wonderful time

in my life. I love Japan. If I wasn't so involved in doing this, I'd go

back to Japan....

MJ: What are your goals and future plans here at the refuge?

SS: Just to be able to keep on doing what we're doing. We have to

constantly expand, just because we get in more and more animals, and if we

can just pay the bills, we're real happy. And if we can't pay the bills

we're still happy. We would rather the bills got paid. But still, one way

or another we would still take care of the animals.

MJ: Domo arigato gozaimasita.

SS: Doitashimashite ne!