Interview With Steve Kelley

MJ: Steve Kelley, thanks for joining us today.

SK: It's a pleasure, thanks.

MJ: Well, tell us about your work here at the newspaper and what exactly you do.

SK: I draw political cartoons, I make fun of the president and all of the people who surround him. I've been working here for almost 16 years, ever since college and everyday I just go in and read the newspaper and try to locate a topic upon which to do the cartoon and then decide what I want to say about it and how to say it and how to say it in a funny, original, unique way.

MJ: This is a great job, isn't it?

SK: Yes, it is. What I do really is to try to reduce a very complicated issue into something.... into a very simple, one shot, one image that people understand readily and that they're amused by and... and try to develop a readership over time so that they come and, and look at my work every day.

MJ: Did you, as a youngster did you think you might be a comic strip

writer or, what did you think you would do someday?

SK: I felt that somehow I was going to use my artistic, what little

artistic talent I have, I was going to make a career of that. Just because

I figured, not everyone can do that, so I had an advantage there. I don't

know, it was either that or I was... at one point I always admired

comedians because they made people laugh and... and people seemed to like

them and I admired that, and I thought maybe someday I might be able to do

that but it, it wasn't practical enough, you couldn't really tell people

that you wanted to be a comedian because they'd look at you like you're,

you're strange or weird or that you weren't responsible, so I did the

responsible thing and then later in life after I had accomplished a few

things in my responsible career I... I started moonlighting a little bit as

a comedian, too.

MJ: When did you first draw your, your first political cartoon?

SK: I was in college and was a member of the track team. I was a pole

vaulter and had injured myself fairly severely and was in the infirmary for

about a week and started taking an interest in politics as it was reported

in the newspaper and I had been drawing cartoons about student life and

just decided to... to apply that talent to politics, what I was reading

about politics, and developed at it very quickly. I found I... I was very

interested in politics and that this gave me a means to express myself and

to have some influence on what was going on.

MJ: When was your first political cartoon published?

SK: I can't really tell you the month and the day, but it was

approximately 1978 or '79, somewhere in there, at Dartmouth College in...

in New Hampshire and I would work for... we had a daily newspaper on campus

and I would work for them for... I would draw cartoons when I wanted to

draw one. I didn't really have a schedule, a set schedule, but when the

spirit moved me, I would draw for them, and then immediately after

graduation I came here and started drawing five a week. I actually started

drawing six a week and cut back to five after a couple of years.

MJ: Now you've lived through four presidents during your time political

cartooning, is that about right?

SK: Jimmy Carter, I drew some cartoons about Carter in college, and then

Ronald Reagan and George Bush and Bill Clinton.

MJ: Which president is the easiest to poke fun at, to make fun of?

SK: Well, for me, I suppose, Clinton has been very good because he,

philosophically is completely at odds with my own political philosophy.

Ronald Reagan was good to draw because he was kind of scatter-brained

and... and there was...the public perception of Reagan was that he didn't

know, he was out of touch, he didn't know what was going on and I made fun

of him for that, but always in the back of my mind, I liked Reagan because

we... we had so much in common philosophically. So, I suppose Clinton is

better for me marginally, but Reagan was a lot of fun, too.

MJ: Now when you draw a president for instance, if you could describe in

your mind just in one phrase, each of the presidents, what would describe

Carter, Reagan, Clinton and Bush?

SK: Carter was, I would describe him as immersed in detail, or distracted

by detail. I think that Jimmy Carter's presidency was marked by his

worrying too much about little things and not having an overall vision. I

think that Ronald Reagan was perhaps detached, but had a vision. He had a

large, general philosophy about how things should work, smaller government,

lower taxes, more individual responsibility. George Bush, I guess, I

would... I would consider him Reagan-lite. He was... he, of course, was

vice-president under Reagan and had a lot of the same sort of,

philosophical inclinations but he sold out, I think to the Democrats on

many of them, and Bill Clinton, I don't know, I think he tries to be all

things to all people and he's had a lot of success, but I think his

failures have come because he's tried to please too many different

constituencies all at once.

MJ: When you draw political figures what are you looking for in terms of,

you know, facial characteristics or you know, over-weight, or whatever,

what... what kind of things do you exaggerate?

SK: I look for what all caricatures look for, are...would be the essence

of the person. It's, it's what someone would notice when they first look

at you. It's the thing that jumps out the most and you start there and

then you sort of exploit that and build the rest of the caricature around

that. There's certain things that make for better caricatures than others.

I mean, if someone is overweight, it's... it's kind of funny, and they're

more fun to draw because they're rounder lines and they're just kind of

funny, you think back on comic caricatures, characters in film and

television... Laurel and Hardy, there's always the contrast between fat and

skinny, there were Laurel and Hardy, Abbott and Costello, many of the

comedy teams had one sort of heavy-set person and one real skinny and

angular. What you don't want, the last thing you want is just someone

who's average, someone who's a regular guy, normal, you know, average size

and... and weight. Bill Clinton has a round nose, he's kind of red, he's a

little puffy, his hair's like cotton candy, it's real soft and kind of...

kind of fluffy, he's a, he's a good-looking man, but yet, he's easy to

caricature, too. Usually, handsome people or attractive women are very

difficult to caricature, because when you caricaturing someone, you're...

you're making them look silly and you're exaggerating their features and if

they have very ordinary features, if they have...if they look like the

weather man, it's difficult to exaggerate anything.

MJ: Are there any people in public life that you are afraid to make fun of

in your cartoons, or?

SK: Just the Internal Revenue Service, because they would come back and

get me. There... there really isn't, you know, it's one of the great

things about doing this job in this country, is that you have freedom to

say whatever it is that you please as long as it's not libelous or, or...

or I suppose just not libelous, you can't libel someone, you can't make up

something that's completely untrue and asserted about someone unless there

are indications of that already there, unless there are allegations of

something. I can exaggerate the truth whereas a columnist, someone who

writes is limited to telling only the truth, what is reported. A

caricaturist, a cartoonist can exaggerate that. I can go a step farther

and... and you know, blow things way out of proportion and it's o.k.

because people know that this is satire, it's a cartoon. It's not supposed

to be completely true.

MJ: Are there any things that you have to be careful of in terms of

getting close to libel or slander or anything like that?

SK: You have to make sure that the person about whom you say something is

a public figure. That's very important. You have to make sure that

there's a grain of truth, some sort of an allegation or a pattern upon

which you base your assertion, I mean you can't just go out and say, "Bill

Clinton is a thief." Because there... there hasn't been any allegation

then. You can say that he's selling the Lincoln bedroom or that he's got

busloads of people coming through and spending the night there because

although he hasn't had busloads, there have been a lot, so you can

exaggerate, but you just can't, you can't just declare something that's

completely untrue, although probably I would be able to do that, I mean

probably I would not lose in a lawsuit because caricature and satire is

protected much more so than the written word, in... in American journalism.

MJ: Now when you come to work in the morning, your job for that day is to

come up with one political cartoon for the next day's paper?

SK: Correct.

MJ: What's the process, you pick up a couple of newspapers? Take us

through it.

SK: I... I read a couple of newspapers, sometimes I watch CNN to see

what... and I try to discern what is the most compelling story of the day,

in essence, what people are talking about when they go out to lunch that

day. That's what I try to target, not necessarily the most important issue

of the day, but what has seized the attention of readers and I try to

address that in my cartoon. I try to decide, "What do I want to say about

this?" and try to say it in an amusing, humorous way. Because I think

that that attracts people day in and day out. If they think, 'well, this

is going to be boring,' then after a while they stop reading you, but if...

if day in and day out you at least amuse them, even if they don't agree

with you, if they're amused by it, they'll come back and read you again and

again. So, that's what I do and then, it's a matter of drawing it, and I

sit down with a pencil and draw out something, I show an editor, make sure

that it's o.k. to run in the newspaper and then I put ink on it. It's

takes, once I get the idea, it's... it's two or three hours to draw it.

MJ: Do you feel pressure, gotta have a cartoon by whatever time today?

SK: Yes, I used to have a sign on the door of my office that said,

"Caution, contents under pressure," and, it's the truth, I mean, it's a

very demanding, high pressure job, because every day you go in you have a

deadline, you're staring at a blank piece of paper and you have to fill it

up, and a writer, even if he doesn't have anything profound to say, he can

write, and... and it looks, it looks fine and most people don't read it

anyway. People are going to look at the cartoon because it doesn't take

long, it's not a big commitment of time to look at a cartoon and it's very

visible on the page, so there is... there's tremendous pressure, and the

same issues tend to recycle themselves so you have... you find yourself

having to comment on an issue that you've commented on time and time and

time again and what can I say about it this time that's different than what

I said last time, and that's funny and people will find interesting. It's

very difficult and after 16 years, there aren't a lot of issues that I

haven't addressed numerous times.

MJ: Are you able to work ahead and you know, make a couple of extra future

cartoons in case you have a block someday?

SK: What I find is that if I ever work ahead and have one, you know, at

the ready, that it inhibits my creative processes on a daily basis, that if

I know that I've got this one ready to go, I can't produce, it's... it's

all that pressure and it's all those deadlines that cause you to be

creative and to produce a cartoon. Without the pressure of the deadline,

you would not be nearly as productive. When I was in college, I had no

deadline, and I only did one or two cartoons a week, and when I got out, I

started doing six a week, and it... it was only because I had to do it that

I was able to get them done.

MJ: Does every political cartoonist have some kind of point of view that

they're trying to get across?

SK: I think so. There are a lot who are... are, who would consider

themselves either a Democrat or a Republican. They have a general set of

principles. I have a general set of principles but I don't think that they

align with either one of the political parties. I tend to look at each

issue separately, independently, and I tell people that I'm, I'm not a

liberal or a conservative, I'm just anti-stupid. I'm just opposed to

stupidity, and... and it comes in all sorts of sizes and shapes and colors

and when I see it, I draw about it. Any issue that comes along, I look in

and I say, "Well, where is the stupidity, and let's... let's confront that,

let's oppose that," and... and I think that most readers share that...

those sentiments. I think most people out there who read the newspaper

don't align themselves completely with one side. They see... they see gray

areas and I just tend to address those gray areas, and I, you know, point

my finger at people.

MJ: There are so many serious issues in American public life right

now...there's the bombings that are going on, there's all these, you

know....., abortion. How do you make light or make fun of those kinds of

very serious, weighty issues?

SK: Obviously, you... you can't make fun or make light of, of issues where

people are being killed, or I mean, abortion. There's nothing funny about

that as an issue. From time to time you can find tangents to an issue that

you can make light of. The fact that there are bombings, that there are a

lot of bombings... you can have someone in a very ordinary circumstance in

life worried about bombings or taking some precaution, some extreme

precaution against a bombing. I drew two people saying, "The metal

detectors are in place, bullet proof vests are there, the wire, the

security guards... o.k. we can have the BBQ now. So, that was a case of

people, you know, it was an exaggeration of what was taking place, and I

wasn't making fun of the bombings... I was just saying people are, this is

an exaggerated view of people's fear, and it was a little bit amusing.

There are some issues that you just, you can't be funny about and so you,

you either decide not to address them, or you address them in a serious, or

more mature way.

MJ: Do you have any idea how many political cartoonist's there are in the

U.S. ?

SK: Yes. I have a very good idea. We have a... we have a convention once

a year and there are about, approximately, 200 regularly paid political

cartoonists who earn their living through political cartoons. There are

probably fewer than four who are female. There probably, there might be

one who is non-white, maybe two, but this is perhaps the most white, male

profession that exists and no one, I mean... no one knows why and no one is

excluded from it, it's just that there are, it happens to be two talents.

You need to have a good sense of humor and the ability to draw and for some

reason it has been a white, male profession. It's curious. I don't know

why it's that way, but you can look at our... our register and, and see.

MJ: Now what do you all do when you get together at this convention once a

year?

SK: Well, we do what everyone else does at conventions. We, we talk about

our jobs and we talk about our bosses and probably, well, a lot of people

drink, I don't, but a lot of the guys do, and we go out to nice restaurants

and they have linen table cloths and we take out magic markers and draw on

them, and the restaurant owners get angry until they see that it's artwork

that they're getting and then they, they encourage us to all of us to draw

on one table cloth and then they keep that as a memento. We have a lot of

fun, we have speakers come in and... and address us... politicians or

newspaper people come in and talk to us.

MJ: Now you draw your cartoon for this newspaper but it's also in many

other newspapers or magazines.

SK: Twelve hundred actually. Well, it's syndicated. What happens is

after it runs here, a copy is sent to the syndicate and they reproduce it

twelve hundred times and mail it out to the clients who... who subscribe to

our service.

MJ: Who would be some of those?

SK: Well, they're newspapers all around the United States, some overseas.

There are magazines, there are weekly newspapers, there are newsletters and

they will contract with Copley news service and subscribe to our cartoon

package and for several dollars a week, sometimes five, sometimes ten,

sometimes 20 dollars a week, they get approximately 50 cartoons that they

are permitted then to publish.

MJ: So like Time, or Newsweek, or...

SK: Newsweek people... Time and Newsweek cartoonists submit to

independent, or in my case, I submit to them independently of the

syndicate. Some syndicates send the cartoons to the magazines also. My

cartoons are carried in Newsweek Japan, frequently, but I send them to

Newsweek and then Newsweek in Washington sends them on to Newsweek Japan.

MJ: What do you think is important about the job of a political

cartoonist in a democracy? Why do we need political cartoonists like you?

SK: I think that political cartoonists are one part of the media and the

media is critical in a democracy because it keeps everybody honest. It...

it, you know, it checks out what people say. A politician makes some

assertion...the media goes out and they check to make sure that what he's

saying is the truth, and it's critical in a democracy that the people have

trust in their government and the media basically is the police between the

people and the government. We make sure that the government is telling the

people the truth. As a political cartoonist I'm given very broad latitude

about what I can say about politicians. We probably are the most reckless

of all members of the media and we're probably among the most popular with

readers because we're so reckless and because we have such broad latitude

to... to slash at politicians. There's so much frustration among readers

with their government and the, sort of legitimate media can't really give

them the sort of satisfaction that they want, but political cartoonists

can. You know, most people like to beat their chests and pound the table

with their fist and call politicians names. Well, where do they find that

in the media except through my work or through the work of other political

cartoonists? So, I think that we serve a very vital function.

MJ: Have you ever heard back from any of your victims or people that liked

what you did?

SK: Yes. All the time, I mean, I... I hear very frequently from people,

not only from readers who were delighted by a cartoon but sometimes from

the target of the cartoon himself or herself and often from their staff

because even though you have been critical of the politician they would

like to have the original artwork in their office as a piece of

memorabilia.

MJ: Can you give us some examples?

SK: Oh man, I wish I could. I knew... I was sitting here thinking, 'He's

gonna ask me to give him examples of that,' and... and I can't. I just

drew a cartoon about a judge who was a local issue. A judge made a ruling

in a very important case here and it was the decisive ruling, and his

office called and wanted the cartoon to hang in... in his office. I drew a

cartoon about the Secretary of State, Madeline Albright when she was made

Secretary of State and William Christopher of course was headed out and I

drew a cartoon about that and that cartoon went on to her, so it's... it's

nice that they would put it in an office rather than having it stuck in a

drawer somewhere, but it is surprising, sometimes. You think that you've

been really critical of someone and they call up and say, 'Oh, well, you

know, that cartoon was tough...gee I'd like to have it to... to hang in

my... hang in my office."

MJ: You also do, sort of, wider social commentary. What kind of, what

kind targets, or what kind of things have you done in that context?

SK: I think that people have become very interested in what we call pop

culture, and in America there are a lot of television shows that have

emerged that thrive on... on covering pop culture, Michael Jackson, and the

JonBenet Ramsey murder trial and the OJ Simpson case. These are all things

that are not really politically oriented and yet foster an awful lot of

interest among readers and viewers of television, and so because I try to

locate the issue that people are most interested in that they talk about at

lunch...I often draw cartoons about Michael Jackson or Elvis Presley on a

postage stamp or the amount of fat in a burrito. Things as esoteric as

that end up being the subject of a political cartoon and... and I find that

people really enjoy that. Joey Buttafuoco, whose wife was shot by his

girlfriend, I mean, it's all very complicated but people love to read about

that and they love cartoons about it. People especially like political

cartoons that make fun of people who have a very high opinion of themselves

because we take them down a notch or two and Hollywood is full of that sort

of person, as is Washington, but Hollywood has just as many and... and

people tend... only a few people really care about politics, almost

everyone cares about Hollywood and the movies and all of that so when you

do a cartoon about something going on in Hollywood and pop culture, you get

a lot more people who read it and react to it.

MJ: What do we learn about America from your political cartoons?

SK: We learn that there's an awful lot of hypocrisy in America. That

would be the one thing if I had to put a bull's eye on the target. It

would be, I would call it hypocrisy because whenever someone stands up

and... and says they believe in something and then they do something that

shows... that shows they don't really believe in that, well that's going to

be a political cartoon. I mean, you know that's going to be a cartoon.

When Bill Clinton stands up and says, "We've got to have campaign finance

reform, " but he makes that statement at a ten thousand dollar a plate

dinner, then you say, 'Well, wait a minute that's a little hypocritical,

let's get out the pens, let's draw a little cartoon.' America... I suppose

all politics is rife with hypocrisy, I mean, it's just, it's everywhere and

certainly there's an awful lot of... of I guess they used to call it, well,

hubris, pride, a lot of... a lot of egos in... both in Washington and in

Hollywood and in American pop culture and if you follow political cartoons,

you'll see that that theme is exploited also.

MJ: Would you say that cynicism is required for this job?

SK: Oh yes, by all means, I mean... I... I think, you know, I told you

that you have to have a good sense of humor and you have to be able to draw

and then I think you have to be very cynical because, I mean you... you

can't be intelligent and not by cynical, I think because we've been at this

for so long and yet the same issues keep coming up over and over and over

and they don't resolve themselves and we complain about it and we vote

people out of office and still we... we spend more money than we take in

and still taxes are too high and... and still they have campaign finance

irregularities. I mean, nothing ever changes, so how can you not be

cynical? It's just that my job... all of these, all of these things that

never change, it feeds me. It keeps... keeps me in business. It's job

security for me.

MJ: Thanks for joining us today, Steve.

SK: Oh you bet, Mark, I enjoyed it.