Interview With Randy Wester

MJ: Randy Wester, Thank you for joining us today.

RW: You're Welcome

MJ: Please tell us about your duties here at the Arizona

Memorial.

RW: I'm the Chief Park Ranger here at the Memorial. I've just

been here about not quite three months this time. I was here as an

operations supervisor from 1991 to early 1993. And so I learned a lot

about what I know now at that time. Here as the Chief Ranger this time I

have a staff of about 18 to 20. It varies depending on the time of year.

Mostly they're interpreters that are the front line folks that we have here

at the park. They're the ones that do the programs for folks. They work

the front desk. They greet the people when they come in... take people on

the tours. We also have resource management people and a Law Enforcement

Specialist, and an Historian that also are in my area. And I kind of

oversee the operation that makes sure that we do have enough people to be

out on line to take care of all these folks that come to visit each day.

MJ: You've been with the service for 17 years now?

RW: 17 years, yes.

MJ: How did you come to this point. You've been at different parks

at different times in your career. Tell us how you got here and where

you've been.

RW: Well, I started, actually my government service started with

the forest service in South East Missouri working on a wild and scenic

river and at that point I was a seasonal employee and I went from there to

St. Louis, Missouri at the old courthouse as a seasonal interpreter. And I

was fortunate enough after that to get a permanent position at Abraham

Lincoln's birthplace in Kentucky. And I stayed there about five years,

again doing interpretation, telling the story that is to be told at each

place. I went from there to Padre Island on the Gulf Coast of Texas and

then to Utah to Golden Spike National Historic Site. I left Utah and came

here for the first time, that was actually New Year's Day in 1991. And I

left here about a little over 2 years ago and went to Theodore Roosevelt

National Park in North Dakota and then the opportunity came to come back

here as the Chief Ranger so I came back in July of 1995.

MJ: What does it mean to be a seasonal interpreter?

RW: It's a beginning position. It's a position that we have

historically used as a learning process. You can get some minimal amount

of training and learn your craft. In this case, I rose through the ranks

of interpretation. There's also the ranger division which deals more with,

in larger parks, in areas of law enforcement, search and rescue. If you

get into some of the crown jewels, as they're called, like Yellowstone or

Grand Teton, Yosemite, you might be dealing with technical rock climbing,

mountain climbing, maybe perhaps doing rescues and areas like that. Some

parts you are required to be very good at skiing. There's just a whole

world of different types of positions. Interpretation, no matter which

park you're in, you're telling the story that that park has to tell, and

sharing that with all the visitors. And that's been my primary background.

MJ: So here at the Arizona Memorial, what is your job as an

interpreter?

RW: Well, primarily my job here now, is I've sort of evolved out

of the interpretation ranks as such. I don't do... I haven't done programs

here for some time. And I more or less oversee those that do the programs.

We have others on the staff that do the actual training and work with

these folks on their technique and their presentation of their programs,

others that have the research capabilities and are able to work with

supplying the facts and making sure that we tell them even- handed, a

well-balanced story that is historically accurate.

MJ: You have a variety of people that come here as visitors. You

have veterans, on both sides, probably...

RW: Correct.

MJ: You have young people, especially in terms of people who were

involved in the war... How do you balance the way the story is told so that

it's not tilted in one direction or the other.

RW: Well, as I mentioned, we do our best to give it a

well-balanced reading and we strive to make sure that we are absolutely

correct on our facts. We require a lot of documentation and

well-researched information before we present this to the public. We are

constantly finding new information. We go after information as you

mentioned from veterans on both sides. We've gotten a great deal of

wonderful information from the Japanese historical community. Some from

the actual people that were involved in the attack. And we have five

veterans that are regular members of our staff on line that do interpreting

programs and they are a very special part of the staff. They do theater

programs, do some special programs on the back lanai.* And it's great for

the visiting public to get this first-hand perspective as to what took

place on that day and at that time.

MJ: Do you ever hear complaints?

RW: Sure.

MJ: What kind of complaints do you hear?

RW: Sure. We have had...you can just name almost anything. We

have folks that feel like the memorial is the most special place and should

be treated with great reverence. Attitudes have changed with the new

generation, several generations really and with that change, people that go

to the memorial, they...a lot of...especially the younger group, don't

really remember Pearl Harbor, or the war. And a lot of what they're

hearing is brand new to them. Their attitudes are different toward what

took place. The older folks that were alive during the war that had a real

impact on them....they lost friends and family. So they look at it

differently. And we get... occasionally, complaints about people on the

Memorial that are maybe laughing, having a good time, and they don't feel

that it necessarily should be treated that way. Sometimes people are

upset, they think this should be an American memorial, and that it should

be limited as to who we allow on the Memorial which we would never even

consider. This is open to the public. We want anyone and everyone to come

and learn about what happened.

MJ: Do you hear from... let's say veterans on either side, either

Japanese veterans or Americans who feel that the story is being told in a

biased light?

RW: We do. Again it's... a lot of it is a matter of perspective.

There are still those that have very strong feelings about what took place.

We changed our film about four or five years ago. And prior to that time

we had a lot of complaints that there were faults in what we were saying in

the film, that we were pushing blame on the United States or on Japan too

strongly, that we weren't doing it as even-handed as we could, of what took

place. The veterans groups, for the most part, are great friends of the

Memorial be it the Americans or the Japanese. And, but there are some

that, and maybe rightfully so I don't know, I'm not one to judge, I didn't

go through it so I don't know, but there are still some very strong

feelings, but we do get a lot of help from both sides.

MJ: What is a full tour like? Can you take us through the

process?

RW: Sure. It's a fairly regimented type program, primarily because

of the numbers of people that we have come in. We can serve a maximum of

forty-five hundred people a day. And depending on the time of year, we'll

usually open our first program at either 7:45 or 8 o'clock in the morning.

We start with the theater program which is a film that lasts about 25

minutes. Then everyone in that theater will exit the back doors and get on

the navy shuttle boat, take about a seven or eight minute boat ride to the

memorial during which there is a recording telling the story and pointing

out certain points along the way. We have about 15 minutes, 10 or 15

minutes on the Memorial itself, and then the return trip to the Memorial.

And while you're on the Memorial, there is one area called a well which is

an opening in the floor of the Memorial and you can actually see down onto

the ship. Depending on the tide, the height at the time, there are several

portions of the ship that are available for viewing and it's very very

shallow. And then, of course, the back of the Memorial is what we call the

Shrine Room. And that does have the names of everyone that was killed on

the Arizona...on the ship. And there were eleven hundred seventy seven

that went down with the ship.

MJ: How is this Memorial funded?

RW: It is completely funded by the government, taxes. It's a...in

part a cooperative effort between the National Park Service and the United

States Navy. The operation of the Memorial and the shore site facility

was turned over to the Park Service in 1980. And since then we have

operated the theaters, the programs themselves and the care of the

facilities including the Memorial. The Navy runs the shuttle boats that

takes folks to and from the Memorial, and they take care of the boats that

do that and the staffing of course is always subject to our budgets. We do

what we can with what we have.

MJ: Is there any private funding?

RW: We have an Arizona Memorial Museum Association which is a

cooperating association, non-profit, and they run our book sales operation

which is here at the Memorial, and monies received from that are returned

to the Park, and without them we wouldn't be able to do nearly as much as

what we've been able to do. And private citizens coming in...we have a

couple of donation boxes in there. They're very generous with their

donations.

MJ: What kind of experiences have you had with the visitors that

you've observed? Do you see sadness or anger or just blank stares? What

do you see?

RW: You really see a mix. We get... and again a lot of this is

generational. The older folks, some are not aware of exactly what took

place and they come in and if they go through the museum and the full

program. They hear the story. They see the film and the video of the main

programs on the boat going to the memorial and spend a few minutes on the

Memorial. It can be a very touching visit for them. We get a lot of

comment sheets. They're filled out at the front desk. Folks leave those

for us. It's very meaningful to a lot of them and others come and again

it's the generation of today that were not...it's not that they don't care,

it's just that they were not around at that time so it doesn't mean quite

as much to them. Some folks come and this is the most they've ever learned

about what actually took place at the Memorial

MJ: The way you describe it, it seems like for some people it's

almost like a religious experience.

RW: It is, for some. This was particularly true during the 50th

Anniversary in 1991. We had several thousand Pearl Harbor survivors that

came back for this, the whole event, which was not just here, it was all

over the island. All the islands really. There were events taking place

everywhere and for some of these men and women, this was the first time

they had been back since Pearl Harbor. And of course many of these were

not Pearl Harbor veterans but veterans of World War II that had been in the

island area and it was...they had saved their money and this was like a

journey for them to come back. And a lot of them knew that this would be

the last opportunity they would have. Next year we will be having a 55th

Anniversary of the attack and the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association, the

local chapter here in Hawaii, is already planning for that and they're

expecting a good number of folks to make that trip, to make it a special

one, and again for many it will probably be the last opportunity that they

will have.

REDO:

MJ: The way you describe these visitors coming, it almost seems

like it's a religious experience for them.

RW: Well, for many it really is. They...for some of them, but

particularly the veterans, the Pearl Harbor survivors, in particular I

guess, many of them have saved their money for many years and this was the

one trip they want to make and this was particularly evident during the

50th Anniversary in 1991. There were several thousand that made that

special effort to make that trip and to come over here for all the events

that took place not only here at the Memorial but all over Hawaii. And

next year, the 55th anniversary of the commemoration of the attack, the

Pearl Harbor Survivors, the local chapter here in Hawaii is already making

plans for that and they're expecting, several, not as big as '91 on the

50th but several hundred of the survivors to come over for that, and again

for many of them it may be the last opportunity they'll have to do that.

MJ: We saw from the ashes of World War II, we saw a friendship

develop between the US and Japan. Do you see that reflected in the

attitudes of people that come here? Do you see that change?

RW: Yes I do. It's taking time. As I mentioned earlier there's

still some that....some very strong feelings out there, but just recently

during the commemoration of the end of World War II at the Punch Bowl

Cemetery of the Pacific they had a sort of a hand shake of friendship

between many of the Japanese fighters and the Americans that were involved

in the attack and there's a plaque up there. It was a very special

ceremony. I think this is spreading out to a lot of the people that come

to visit.

MJ: What is the mix of visitors in terms of nationality?

RW: Oh gosh we have, every nationality in the world comes to

visit, probably 35 percent, 30-35 percent I would guess are international

visitors. The largest numbers that come from any country are probably

Chinese and Japanese, but we get a lot of French, Spanish, German, really

just from all over the world and it makes up at least a third perhaps

higher percentage of our total visitation.

MJ: And why is it called the Arizona Memorial?

RW: The events that took place on December 7th happened so quickly

and suddenly the United States was in a war. The Arizona was the one most

devastating sight from that attack, the most men lost in any single ship

tragedy and the...suddenly the focus had to change. We tried to salvage

what we could from all the ships. Of the 21 that were sunk or damaged,

something like 18 were returned to service. The Utah, on the other side of

Ford Island also lost about 58 to 60, I believe, men on that ship, and she

still remains there in the water. The Oklahoma was capsized, lost about

400 men. She was returned upright and was sold for salvage too badly

damaged and sank on her way to the mainland. The Arizona, however, had the

misfortune of having a bomb hit in it's magazine and from the explosion

sank in about nine minutes and with her she took eleven hundred seventy

seven men. They started salvage operations almost immediately, but due to

the tangled steel and the equipment that they had to use at that time, the

salvage operation had to be called off fairly quick. They did what they

could and I believe they recovered perhaps a hundred of the men. After

that the focus had to change. There really wasn't a whole lot that they

could do at that time and it was determined that it would stay there. As

time went on, ships that would come into Pearl Harbor would in effect

salute the Arizona and that was a constant reminder of what had happened

and what they were fighting for. And it evolved into the Arizona Memorial

thereafter.

MJ: Where were you on the morning of December 7th, 1941?

RW: I was nowhere. I was not born until 1946.

MJ: So as a person who wasn't around at the time, like myself,

what does this mean to you?

RW: Well, it is a very special place. It's...I was in the navy in

the mid-sixties, and was on a ship, and in a lot of cases we're not exactly

where we want to be, and we don't want the worst to happen, but these were

young men who had made that decision to be there. It was just so... they

didn't for many of them didn't even have a chance, didn't even know what

happened, but they were willing to make that sacrifice, willing to be

there. And it was just a tragic circumstance that happened.

MJ: What is the attitude of the community here in Hawaii to what's

going on here at the Memorial?

RW: The people of Hawaii have a lot of respect for the Memorial

and what it stands for. The vast majority of the people are very

interested in the Memorial and the work that we do here. It's very evident

just on a daily basis being out in front where all the people are that the

folks that live here, most of them, anytime somebody comes to visit they

bring them to the Memorial. It's a place that they really want them to

see. We try to keep it from being a tourist-type thing. We want it to be

a place of respect, a place where they come to learn and to understand what

took place and hopefully nothing like this will ever happen again.

MJ: You mentioned that there is a waiting list sometimes..

RW: There is a line that sometimes is quite long. We, our policy

has always been that we give our tickets out on a first come first serve

basis. There's no charge for the ticket. They only charge is a little bit

of your time when you come. As I mentioned earlier we start at 7:45 or 8

o'clock depending on the season, in the morning. And like today, and

yesterday we've had a large convention in town of, I think, insurance

company employees, workers, and this is... their convention is over now and

a lot of those folks are staying around to visit. And a lot of them are

coming out at the same time and these two days have been quite exceptional

we've had very long lines in the morning and yesterday we had 700 plus

people in line today, 800 plus... and that will take us through the first 6

or 7 programs. Yesterday we had about a two hour wait for a good long

while. Today it's an hour and fifteen minutes, and hour and a half,

something like that. It's much slower than it used to be. It used to be

very very busy. We sometimes would be out of tickets by noon. There might

be a three or four hour wait. So things have changed a little bit, perhaps

different vacation destinations and that sort of thing have changed the

waiting a little bit. We still have a lot of...a lot of folks come to

visit.

MJ: You obviously had a choice of where you would like to be

assigned and you chose to come here, why?

RW: I.... It's a combination of things, it really is. I...As I

mentioned, I was in the navy in the mid-sixties, and I came to Hawaii twice

as a young 18-19 year-old sailor and the Hawaii that I saw then was much

different than what I saw today. However, there was a memorial at the

Arizona, not the one we see today, but there was one there and I didn't get

to see the Hawaii that I really wanted to see and I determined that I would

love to come back some day but I always felt like if I did I'd probably

would have to come here and work rather than vacation. I thought that

would be a better way to see it. I'd have the time to see it. I'd have

the time to do it to see it right, and learn about the place and the

opportunity came up in '91 and I came and it's a very expensive place to

live and so I went back to the mainland for a couple years and this

opportunity arose to come back with a promotion and I took that and I enjoy

being here. Working at the Memorial, as I mentioned earlier, it's a very

special place and I've learned a lot being here and I enjoy working here.

MJ: What job satisfaction do you get from your work?

RW: It's, we talked about this a little bit earlier, but a lot of

it is seeing the people that come out and are not sure what to expect, not

sure what they're going to see and they walk away with a very special

feeling that they've just seen something extraordinary and they've learned

a good deal about what took place. To me that tells me that the people on

line, the Interpreters, the Resource Management person, the Historian, the

folks that are actually out there doing the work are doing a really good

job. They work ...there's a lot of love in what they do to be able to work

under the conditions that we sometimes have to deal with. The lowering of

budgets and the more visitors coming in. It can be a very stressful place,

but they do such a wonderful job here. You can tell just by listening to

their programs in the theater or just talking to them, that this is also a

special place for them. That makes me feel good about what they're doing.

MJ: Can you tell us about the origins of the monument?

RW: Alfred Price was the architect who designed the Memorial and

it was... he was here during the attack. I believe he was Austrian and he

actually was in an internment camp for a short time right after the

outbreak of the war. There have been numerous people who have contributed

to the cost of building the Memorial. We get people occasionally that come

out, we've actually had people come out and want to know why we don't have

a statue of Elvis Presley somewhere because he did indeed have a concert

here in Hawaii to help raise money for the Memorial, but others have

equally contributed and this was something the...I believe the War

Commission which was formed many years ago, wanted to have a Memorial here

eventually....after it was determined that they were going to let the

Arizona remain where she was.

MJ: For somebody who wants to get a full sense of what happened

and what this place means what would you recommend in terms of coming here

and what they should see?

RW: I would suggest first of all that they come early. We

generally will start forming a line out front about a quarter after seven.

We open our doors at 7:30. Early morning it's a little cooler and if you

come in that early you can easily get on in the first to the second

program. Go through the program and take the time to really listen to what

is being said and when you get to the Memorial go to the Shrine Room and

just look at the names and spend a moment of reflection there. When you

come back to the visitor center on the shore side, absolutely take the time

to go through the museum and take a good look at that. If one of the Pearl

Harbor survivors is here, they are all volunteers and they usually have on

a fairly bright green shirt that helps them stand out and their Pearl

Harbor Survivor Association hat. It's always something special to be able

to stop and talk to them and listen to their story. You'll find a lot of

extra heart in what they have to say. And I think that....if you do those

things... and don't rush through it that'll make the trip very worthwhile.

MJ: Thank you for joining us today.

RW: My pleasure.